Uh oh critical thinking skills. Well there goes 80% of people nowadays lol … ok 95% of people, I’m not the smartest guy but I do try to think things threw. Nobody likes doing something twice for no reason. What’s that saying, buy it right or buy it twice! Same principle applies
Spoke to a well known tuner about this and he said their car would blow up every round of pulling that much timing was seriously detrimental to the engine.
Their car is making less than 2000whp, but close to that number and is mostly an 1/8 mile car.
Is your engine (because of the higher hp) more on the edge of failure and more sensitive to big timing changes making peak power?
Steve I'd be interested to know, is this a Profiler Trac Control? The Davis box in my experience can do a great job, but it's still an ecu, and does exactly as it's told to do. Yes, I absolutely agree, we only use Trac Control to save the pass, or maybe help the 60', but definitely agree ya can't ride the curve the whole way down
Completely different philosophy but some of the OEM traction controls on the modern cars is really good. Loads of guys drive on track doing laps after lap with that system saving their ass. What is done differently on those systems to avoid this, or is it just much lower power much lower stress on the motor?
I do not see how its hurting pistons from this. I could see it hurting exh valves, however the EGT increase is the fuel burning in the exh not in the cylinder due to the delayed ignition event. The chamber should be cooler. What part of the piston is damaged?
Have you ever considered experimenting by using an E-gate, moving it to the cold side and instead of traction control cutting timing, use the E-gate to modulate boost pressure?
My theory is to have the engine running at its peak performance and letting the turbo’s eat. When traction control kicks in, the accuracy and speed of the E-gates should have no issues managing power outputs.
Theoretically, this should be much easier and less violent on parts because you’re essentially controlling a boost leak and not the engine.
Has anyone used electronic throttle bodies to improve traction control? I'm talking about the 4 second and quicker cars. The engine would be a lot happier than retarding the timing.
I've been telling the younger guys about this and the damages 2 steps cause since they both got big. Use both sparingly as it does hurt the parts. Eventually it's gonna fail and it's using these things excessively.
As a powerplant teacher I'm going to add ( because some might not understand exactly what Steve is saying).And correct me if I'm wrong Steve, but the fueling map is trying to put in everything that the engine needs if the timing wasn't being altered by the traction control.
Uh oh critical thinking skills. Well there goes 80% of people nowadays lol … ok 95% of people, I’m not the smartest guy but I do try to think things threw. Nobody likes doing something twice for no reason. What’s that saying, buy it right or buy it twice! Same principle applies
Spoke to a well known tuner about this and he said their car would blow up every round of pulling that much timing was seriously detrimental to the engine.
Their car is making less than 2000whp, but close to that number and is mostly an 1/8 mile car.
Is your engine (because of the higher hp) more on the edge of failure and more sensitive to big timing changes making peak power?
More in depth discussion would be appreciated!
Steve I'd be interested to know, is this a Profiler Trac Control? The Davis box in my experience can do a great job, but it's still an ecu, and does exactly as it's told to do. Yes, I absolutely agree, we only use Trac Control to save the pass, or maybe help the 60', but definitely agree ya can't ride the curve the whole way down
It seems that when you have traction control on you keep timing low or only run it at the beginning
thumbed
Fascinating, thank you for sharing. What I'm really curious about now is how this compares this a good timing graph.
Interesting!
Just an opinion, but, "traction control" and the "engine shutoff" are the two stupidest options put in vehicles.
Completely different philosophy but some of the OEM traction controls on the modern cars is really good. Loads of guys drive on track doing laps after lap with that system saving their ass. What is done differently on those systems to avoid this, or is it just much lower power much lower stress on the motor?
Ignition control traction management is always hard on engines.
Boost manipulation, throttle manipulation or fuel cut is generally safer way to manage power.
What about traction control using full fuel cut? Less smooth but surly perfectly safe if it’s a full cut?
I do not see how its hurting pistons from this. I could see it hurting exh valves, however the EGT increase is the fuel burning in the exh not in the cylinder due to the delayed ignition event. The chamber should be cooler. What part of the piston is damaged?
Have you ever considered experimenting by using an E-gate, moving it to the cold side and instead of traction control cutting timing, use the E-gate to modulate boost pressure?
My theory is to have the engine running at its peak performance and letting the turbo’s eat. When traction control kicks in, the accuracy and speed of the E-gates should have no issues managing power outputs.
Theoretically, this should be much easier and less violent on parts because you’re essentially controlling a boost leak and not the engine.
Lesson learned as always. Class dismissed for today
The reality is, we put the fuel in the hole and make the car go. Any time we start moving things around aggressively, it just causes problems.
This was one of my favorite videos. God bless you Steve and Morris fam/team.
Has anyone used electronic throttle bodies to improve traction control? I'm talking about the 4 second and quicker cars. The engine would be a lot happier than retarding the timing.
Awesome!
I've been telling the younger guys about this and the damages 2 steps cause since they both got big. Use both sparingly as it does hurt the parts. Eventually it's gonna fail and it's using these things excessively.
Awesome video.
Above 1500 near 1600 degrees is the piston kiss of death.
Maybe these traction control tunes could start including 20% or so fuel to tame the heat?
I love this kind of forensic diagnosis, especially on someone else's engine!
As a powerplant teacher I'm going to add ( because some might not understand exactly what Steve is saying).And correct me if I'm wrong Steve, but the fueling map is trying to put in everything that the engine needs if the timing wasn't being altered by the traction control.